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At the Long-Term Stock Exchange, we are dedicated to creating a world where businesses are empowered to achieve lasting impact and long-term prosperity.
To foster meaningful conversations, we curate conversations from an ecosystem of leaders, entrepreneurs, and visionaries.
The Eric Ries Show, a podcast produced by Founder and Chair of LTSE Services, Eric Ries, reflects our mission.
The show features thought-provoking conversations with world-class technologists, thought leaders, executives, and others who are working to create a new ecosystem of organizations committed to growth with purpose.
To foster meaningful conversations, we curate conversations from an ecosystem of leaders, entrepreneurs, and visionaries.
The Eric Ries Show, a podcast produced by Founder and Chair of LTSE Services, Eric Ries, reflects our mission.
The show features thought-provoking conversations with world-class technologists, thought leaders, executives, and others who are working to create a new ecosystem of organizations committed to growth with purpose.
Disclaimer: Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources (including the Eric Ries Show) and not independently verified. The Long-Term Stock Exchange and its affiliated companies do not make any representations or warranties, express or implied, as to the accuracy or completeness of the information and do not sponsor, approve, or endorse any of the content herein, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes. Nothing herein constitutes an offer to sell, a solicitation to buy any security, or a recommendation of any security or trading practice.
Some portions of the podcast may have been edited for the purpose of length or clarity.
From the Eric Ries Show:
MBA thinking killed my startup, lessons on losing 98% of users, and being fired as a co-founder | Gagan Biyani (Udemy and Maven)
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In today’s episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Gagan Biyani, Co-Founder and CEO of Maven, a platform that’s redefining online education with cohort-based courses. Before Maven, Gagan co-founded Udemy, now one of the largest online education marketplaces, and Sprig, a meal delivery startup.
Gagan started his entrepreneurial journey at just 21, and along the way, he’s experienced both big wins and tough lessons. We get into what worked, what didn’t, and how those experiences shaped his approach to building companies today.
In our conversation today, we talk about the following:
• How a free truffle at Sprig revealed the pitfalls of MBA-style thinking
• Why Gagan has shifted his thinking to be less metric-obsessed
• The underestimated value of intuition in decision-making
• Maintaining company culture at scale—onboarding new hires while preserving core values
• What drives value in any marketplace
• Lessons from Gagan’s exit from Udemy—and how he rebuilt his friendship with his co-founder
• How to use AI to increase productivity and where it falls short
• An explanation of Gagan’s concept of ‘atomic unit’
• AI’s potential to transform education
• And more!
—
Brought to you by:
• Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. Save $1,000 today.
• Gusto – Gusto is an easy payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. Get 3 months free.
• Runway – The finance platform you don’t hate. Learn more.
—
Where to find Gagan Biyani:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gaganbiyani/
• X: https://x.com/gaganbiyani
• Website: https://www.gaganbiyani.com/
—
Where to find Eric:
• Newsletter:https://ericries.carrd.co/
• Podcast:https://ericriesshow.com/
• YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow
—
In This Episode We Cover:
(00:00) Intro
(03:06) MBA thinking and how taking away the free truffle impacted Sprig
(13:35) Different types of trust in different industries
(19:19) How to preserve trust while balancing business costs
(26:21) How Maven’s internal processes, once ideal, needed to evolve with growth
(30:40) Why investing time in new hires is key to embedding company culture
(32:10) Gagan’s entrepreneurship journey
(35:00) The value of intuition
(37:40) Early insights at Udemy that led to the shift toward video-recorded courses
(46:52) Thoughts on failure
(49:40) How to build a successful marketplace
(54:42) Gagan’s exit from Udemy
(1:03:01) Why Gagan founded Maven and an explanation of cohort-based education
(1:07:05) The difference between Maven and Udemy and how Maven is doing now
(1:13:12) Why AI is overhyped—but still very useful
(1:16:02) The future of AI in education
(1:22:36) Lightning round
—
Referenced:
- Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/
- Maven: https://maven.com/
- Meal-delivery service Sprig shuts down: https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Meal-delivery-service-Sprig-shuts-down-11176468.php
- Mercury: https://mercury.com/
- Carta: https://carta.com/
- Collapse of Silicon Valley Bank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_Silicon_Valley_Bank
- The HBR Interview: “We Had to Own the Mistakes”(with Howard Schultz): https://hbr.org/2010/07/the-hbr-interview-we-had-to-own-the-mistakes
- The Product Market Fit Engine by Rahul Vohra: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/the-product-market-fit-engine-by-rahul-vohra/
- Using Sean Ellis Test For Measuring Your Product/Market Fit: https://medium.productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c
- TechCrunch: https://techcrunch.com/
- Founder Institute: https://fi.co/
- The Lean Startup course on Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/course/the-lean-startup/
- Eren Bali on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erenbali/
- Carbon Health: https://carbonhealth.com/
- Oktay Çağlar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caglaroktay/
- 21+ Truly Shocking Online Course Completion Rate Statistics: https://bloggingx.com/online-course-completion-statistics/
- Improving Your Product Sense: https://maven.com/shreyas-doshi/product-sense
- Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/
- Alpha School: https://alpha.school/
- The Minimum Viable Testing Process for Evaluating Startup Ideas: https://review.firstround.com/the-minimum-viable-testing-process-for-evaluating-startup-ideas/
- Gagan’s X post about monk mode: https://x.com/gaganbiyani/status/1349061303416082439
—
Production and marketing byhttps://penname.co/.
Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Show Notes
In today’s episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Gagan Biyani, Co-Founder and CEO of Maven, a platform that’s redefining online education with cohort-based courses. Before Maven, Gagan co-founded Udemy, now one of the largest online education marketplaces, and Sprig, a meal delivery startup.
Gagan started his entrepreneurial journey at just 21, and along the way, he’s experienced both big wins and tough lessons. We get into what worked, what didn’t, and how those experiences shaped his approach to building companies today.
In our conversation today, we talk about the following:
• How a free truffle at Sprig revealed the pitfalls of MBA-style thinking
• Why Gagan has shifted his thinking to be less metric-obsessed
• The underestimated value of intuition in decision-making
• Maintaining company culture at scale—onboarding new hires while preserving core values
• What drives value in any marketplace
• Lessons from Gagan’s exit from Udemy—and how he rebuilt his friendship with his co-founder
• How to use AI to increase productivity and where it falls short
• An explanation of Gagan’s concept of ‘atomic unit’
• AI’s potential to transform education
• And more!
—
Brought to you by:
• Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. Save $1,000 today.
• Gusto – Gusto is an easy payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. Get 3 months free.
• Runway – The finance platform you don’t hate. Learn more.
—
Where to find Gagan Biyani:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gaganbiyani/
• X: https://x.com/gaganbiyani
• Website: https://www.gaganbiyani.com/
—
Where to find Eric:
• Newsletter:https://ericries.carrd.co/
• Podcast:https://ericriesshow.com/
• YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow
—
In This Episode We Cover:
(00:00) Intro
(03:06) MBA thinking and how taking away the free truffle impacted Sprig
(13:35) Different types of trust in different industries
(19:19) How to preserve trust while balancing business costs
(26:21) How Maven’s internal processes, once ideal, needed to evolve with growth
(30:40) Why investing time in new hires is key to embedding company culture
(32:10) Gagan’s entrepreneurship journey
(35:00) The value of intuition
(37:40) Early insights at Udemy that led to the shift toward video-recorded courses
(46:52) Thoughts on failure
(49:40) How to build a successful marketplace
(54:42) Gagan’s exit from Udemy
(1:03:01) Why Gagan founded Maven and an explanation of cohort-based education
(1:07:05) The difference between Maven and Udemy and how Maven is doing now
(1:13:12) Why AI is overhyped—but still very useful
(1:16:02) The future of AI in education
(1:22:36) Lightning round
—
Referenced:
- Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/
- Maven: https://maven.com/
- Meal-delivery service Sprig shuts down: https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Meal-delivery-service-Sprig-shuts-down-11176468.php
- Mercury: https://mercury.com/
- Carta: https://carta.com/
- Collapse of Silicon Valley Bank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_Silicon_Valley_Bank
- The HBR Interview: “We Had to Own the Mistakes”(with Howard Schultz): https://hbr.org/2010/07/the-hbr-interview-we-had-to-own-the-mistakes
- The Product Market Fit Engine by Rahul Vohra: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/the-product-market-fit-engine-by-rahul-vohra/
- Using Sean Ellis Test For Measuring Your Product/Market Fit: https://medium.productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c
- TechCrunch: https://techcrunch.com/
- Founder Institute: https://fi.co/
- The Lean Startup course on Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/course/the-lean-startup/
- Eren Bali on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erenbali/
- Carbon Health: https://carbonhealth.com/
- Oktay Çağlar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caglaroktay/
- 21+ Truly Shocking Online Course Completion Rate Statistics: https://bloggingx.com/online-course-completion-statistics/
- Improving Your Product Sense: https://maven.com/shreyas-doshi/product-sense
- Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/
- Alpha School: https://alpha.school/
- The Minimum Viable Testing Process for Evaluating Startup Ideas: https://review.firstround.com/the-minimum-viable-testing-process-for-evaluating-startup-ideas/
- Gagan’s X post about monk mode: https://x.com/gaganbiyani/status/1349061303416082439
—
Production and marketing byhttps://penname.co/.
Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Disclaimer
The information is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and nothing contained herein should be construed as investment advice, either on behalf of a particular security or an overall investment strategy. Information about the company is provided by the company, or comes from the companies’ public filings and is not independently verified by LTSE. Neither LTSE nor any of its affiliates makes any recommendation to buy or sell any security or any representation about the financial condition of any company. Statements regarding LTSE-listed companies are not guarantees of future performance. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Investors should undertake their own due diligence and carefully evaluate companies before investing. Advice from a securities professional is strongly advised.
Curated Conversations
